Comment Here On Session 5

Comments

# Adam Roades said on 10 August, 2007 09:10 AM

Eric is a phenomenal musician...gave me chills. An incredible way to begin day 2. See him on YouTube: http://tinyurl.com/3cvxdb

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Andrew said on 10 August, 2007 09:10 AM

Who is it that is playing the guitar right now?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# wendy seidman said on 10 August, 2007 09:16 AM

His name is Eric Mongrain. His website is ericmongrain.com.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Andrew said on 10 August, 2007 09:19 AM

Thanks! I think it is probably this (spelled with a K) http://www.erikmongrain.com/

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Roddy Chiong said on 10 August, 2007 09:24 AM

Hybelism: "Dutch People, Hang On To Your Hairpieces!"

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Greg Bowman said on 10 August, 2007 09:39 AM

Interesting - "It’s not hard to do something; it’s hard to be effective." I could leave now and examine what I do...

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Emmanuel said on 10 August, 2007 09:40 AM

Is it possible to get a copy of the Michael Porter's powerpoint?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Greg Bowman said on 10 August, 2007 09:44 AM

Yes - we will post it at 10:30 when he is finished.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Robin Green said on 10 August, 2007 09:45 AM

brilliant - done wrong, charity can do harm. coupled with the tendency to focus on how it makes the "giver" feel ... graduate level thinking about something that seems so basic...

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# keith reynolds said on 10 August, 2007 09:48 AM

What were his 3rd and 4th questions?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Emmanuel said on 10 August, 2007 09:48 AM

Anyway to get the powerpoint now so that we can take notes directly on it? ]that's how we did it in b-school ;)]

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Robin Green said on 10 August, 2007 09:51 AM

question 3 was "who are we trying to serve" (i think) question 4 was "how do we create alignment"

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Robin Green said on 10 August, 2007 09:53 AM

oops - question 3 was "how do we carry out our serving goals" or something like that

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Greg Bowman said on 10 August, 2007 09:55 AM

It's not yet available to us. Mr Porter has asked us to post a link to his site at 10:30 so you can get it after the talk.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Emmanuel said on 10 August, 2007 09:57 AM

Ok, thanks, will just be patient :).

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Emmanuel said on 10 August, 2007 10:00 AM

Michael Porter's Institute for Competitive Strategy at Harvard http://www.isc.hbs.edu/

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Hyunsue said on 10 August, 2007 10:02 AM

For site like here (Chodae Church), multi screens can be use for broadcasting and power point screen in same time for better approaching to this session at satellite sites. Please consider this tip for further sessions of Mr. Porter or Mr. Buckingham's

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Samantha said on 10 August, 2007 10:16 AM

This session would be much more effective and easier to follow with the slides, since he is referencing them. For those of us outside the main site it is very hard to stay on track. Just a thought for improving for next time........

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Eric said on 10 August, 2007 10:19 AM

It would be great if the video switcher just posted each slide at least briefly on the screen. They did it at the beginning. When the speaker is specifically directing our attention to the screen, this would be helpful.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Robin Green said on 10 August, 2007 10:19 AM

Porter's insights are amazingly rich - he may be losing some of the audience in the MBA style delivery....

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Abram K-J said on 10 August, 2007 10:20 AM

Why is "creating maximum value" such a strong value? Who says that's worth pursuing as the end of all strategy (besides Porter)? I'd be curious to hear on what he bases this....

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Ted said on 10 August, 2007 10:21 AM

Think most of the church that televise the summit have multi-screens. To do that. I would have diffently help with Mr. Buckingham's information. His points flew by on the screen. When they could have been left up on the side screens so we could copy them.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# jon said on 10 August, 2007 10:23 AM

great content, but very frustrating to not have slides at least shown on the main or sides screens. we've only seen 1 slide for about 10 seconds. i'd take more slides and less of porter walking back and forth like a caged tiger...

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Ted said on 10 August, 2007 10:24 AM

Remember, he deals with the business world mostly. But, there is alot that we as a church or community can take from this. If we can understand it. (this is a week area for me.)

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Greg Bowman said on 10 August, 2007 10:25 AM

jon - are you are a sattelite site?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Lorayne said on 10 August, 2007 10:26 AM

Their are notes on the sessions that we have access to in the blog area

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Abram K-J said on 10 August, 2007 10:26 AM

Ted--great comment, though I think my question can still apply in the business world....

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# mike maxwell said on 10 August, 2007 10:26 AM

I wish that those who were viewing the Summit via satelite would have an opportunity to see the slides while the talk is being presented. It would have been helpful during Michael Porter's presentation.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Rob Willis said on 10 August, 2007 10:26 AM

How can we get a copy of those slides?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Greg Bowman said on 10 August, 2007 10:27 AM

This is a new venture for us - and it's great to hear from you all. I am passing your comments along to our planning team. We will keep improving and appreciate your input! Would also love to keep hearing how the speakers challenge you and what you may not agree with.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Samantha said on 10 August, 2007 10:27 AM

Understanding is not the problem, he is giving a lot of information and to try to catch it all without some help with the slides, or some type of outline. He has so much to say and we are just trying to get the most out of his time and ours.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Michael Bustos said on 10 August, 2007 10:28 AM

Finally, someone is telling the church that we're not being effective when we send our laywers, computer programmers, nurses, etc. half way around the world to paint the walls of a church--that's falling apart because they are the ones the built it last year. On the other hand, if we don't send our non-carpenters to Louisiana, will it ever get rebuilt?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Bret Welstead said on 10 August, 2007 10:28 AM

Where do we get the slides? He mentioned that he hopes we will download them... does anyone know how we can get to them?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Ron Perry said on 10 August, 2007 10:28 AM

It would have been helpful if we could have seen Michaels slides on a side screen. It would have made it easier to take notes if we could have taken them in a power point format.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# bill said on 10 August, 2007 10:28 AM

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Mark said on 10 August, 2007 10:29 AM

For those of you at remote sites...the PPT slides in the main auditorium at WCCC are woefully small...bad color combos, etc....so, not much help. Word is after the talk, the slides will be available at a link to Mr Porter's site...

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# tim said on 10 August, 2007 10:29 AM

I agree, we are at a satellite site as well and with all the technology we are using to make this work, we should be able to also submit slide presentations either in a seperate online feed or simply emailed morning of to load in our systems, for use in our existing side screen systems to enhance and make the satellite sites more like the main room.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Robin said on 10 August, 2007 10:31 AM

While the community serice activity comments are true. Please keep in mind the reason companies or organization have their engineers or nurses out building houses on the weekend is because they know many of these individuals would not do it at all if it wasn't a company designated activity. BTW, only in the last few years have companies started incorporating “community days” into their business needs because they realize it’s good for their business image. Having these people participate in a day of service, regardless of their area of expertise, is better than not having them do anything at all. The goal often is to have these indivduals get involved beyond the annual day of service by showing individuals they make an impact.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# jon said on 10 August, 2007 10:31 AM

armitage baptist. content couldn't be more relevant for our location. lack of slides couldn't be more frustrating. still a great talk, even without the slides.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Chris said on 10 August, 2007 10:32 AM

O.k., He's making great points about using people with a certain skill set to operate and serve within their skill set yet part of serving is moving outside your comfort zone. Sometimes the only way to do so is for the guy with the Phd to build the house. Know what I mean?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Rob Willis said on 10 August, 2007 10:33 AM

Two things: 1) There ARE times when specific things need to be done and someone needs to do them, and a skillset won't be used. Long term, that is not the BEST way to operate, but as leadership is a PROCESS, there are times when we will take on endeavor for a greater good which means that a doctor will paint or a lawyer will do yard clean-up. The question sometimes is, "What needs to be done right now?" 2) Ultimately though, what he is saying lines up with Acts 6 - the apostles realized that their best value was not added through serving tables. This lines up pretty well with Scripture specifically so far as the big picture is concerned. But then again, John 13(?), the Creator washes disciples feet - sometimes you need to do what needs to be done regardless of your abilities... :)

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Greg Bowman said on 10 August, 2007 10:33 AM

the link for the sligdes will be posted on the blog soon. In the mean time, here's a direct link: www.isc.hbs.edu It will be in the left column under presentations tab.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Ted said on 10 August, 2007 10:34 AM

No slides yet - Michael - Yes, there are people out their that do you very needed skills and they diffently can help in their field. But on the other, they may get pleasure out of help others in many different ways and with them doing that they are growing themselves (raising the "Law of the Lid")

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Kevin Roe said on 10 August, 2007 10:35 AM

There are a few people at my satellite site who have gotten upset with some of Dr. Porter's statements. Here is the question that came to my mind as a result: Would Jesus rather us be as effective as possible in the "social services" we do by partnering with other organizations (including non-church) or be less effective but do it in his name?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Abram K-J said on 10 August, 2007 10:36 AM

Michael--re: your Louisiana comment--I just came back from leading a team of 26 Youth and Adults to New Orleans to do a number of things, including construction. I think what most struck me was how often people thanked us for "being there." Our presence was huge. And how do you strategically measure it? You can't, at least not quite as specifically as you can measure how much it cost per person for us to go on the trip. But to measure only in that latter way would be to miss the point. Could we have more cheaply got a deck painted if we hired professional painters to do it? Of course. But we showed up, too, which blessed the socks of the recipient of our service. This was priceless. I think "social benefits per dollar expended" as a definition of "value" misses the point a bit. It's not all about dollars when providing social services. (I'm sure Porter realizes this, but he could have nuanced this more in his presentation.)

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# ruth hubbard said on 10 August, 2007 10:37 AM

rich...helpful...challenging stuff from this man there are things (like Bible translation) that are foundational to building the Kingdom but that churches can't do well alone i am encouraged

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Greg Bowman said on 10 August, 2007 10:40 AM

great question kevin. I think that's where churches get stuck. What if we partnered with non-christian agencies and impacted them as well as the people we are trying to serve?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Thomas said on 10 August, 2007 10:41 AM

I imagine that Mr. Porter's comment and perspective would cause some to be uncomfortable - good. We as church members rarely are willing to ask hard process questions about what we do. I believe we all learn the most when in uncomfortable situations. So, learn!

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Jason Craigo said on 10 August, 2007 10:43 AM

Where do I download the powerpoint?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Chris said on 10 August, 2007 10:44 AM

To Those Offended: I think we need to remember that many of these people are teaching how to contribute to society in secular ways as best as possible. His comments should be taken to heart and are important. It is likely that many will be offended at the prospect their their "good hopes" in service are not good enough. Rather they must work hard in the physical realms as well as the spiritual to show their faith on a daily basis. This is a difficult and humiliating thing to accept.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Gigi said on 10 August, 2007 10:47 AM

Dr. Porter made a great point, but I think that someone still needs to meet the needs of the people on a short-term basis while the long-term goals are being pursued.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Liz said on 10 August, 2007 10:51 AM

Some of my most meaningful serving times have been outside of my giftedness - like going to the DR to "build a wall" - because God used those experiences to shape me and break my heart for the poor. However, I do think that I would not be the best steward of my gifts if I chose those experiences to be my primary place of service. God has given us each unique gifts, passions and skills and I believe that it is in the use of those that we can make the most impact for Him.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Erica Dekker said on 10 August, 2007 10:56 AM

The mention of partnering with secular orgs made me think of this passage. Any thoughts?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Bill said on 10 August, 2007 10:59 AM

So where is the link to Porter's slides?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Jeff said on 10 August, 2007 11:02 AM

I think much of the value comes from us opening ourselves up to learn from someone such as Dr. Porter. I do believe that in many cases (not all) the local church has been able to justify only moderately impactful programs by the fact they personally felt good about it. I think it is a valid question to ask e.g. if $100,000 to send a team to build a house in Mexico is good STEWARDSHIP of the resources God has given us to invest when for $10,000 we could have sent the money to local folks to accomplish the same thing. Don't know the answer but the value is in continuing to ask the question and not just continue with what we've always done. Just some thoughts.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Jason Craigo said on 10 August, 2007 11:14 AM

The one thing that we need to realize about "value", especially for a missions team is the impact that personal interaction has on individuals. How much is one life for the kingdom of God worth? We do need to be good stewards, but sometimes the monetary cost is not the only portion of the value of a project.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Abram K-J said on 10 August, 2007 11:26 AM

Jeff--I think it depends on the context. Would the recipients in Mexico take it as tokenism if you just sent money? Or would your actual physical presence incarnate Christ to them in a way money couldn't? All depends on the context... especially in some of this earth's more "forgotten" places, I think the physical presence is huge, even if "locals" could provide more "efficient" or cost-effective labor. We need to remember that churches have a "double bottom line": dollars and souls.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Jason Wilson said on 10 August, 2007 11:28 AM

Anyone know where to find the slides for this session?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Kevin Roe said on 10 August, 2007 11:50 AM

The presentation is now up at http://www.isc.hbs.edu/pdf/20070810_MEP_WillowCreekAssociation.pdf

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Kelly said on 10 August, 2007 11:52 AM

It's 11:50 and still no link. Can you let us bloggers know when they will be ready. By the way I just loved his talk. He said OUT LOUD what many leaders would like to question to their staff and volunteers but are afraid to do. Please don't take his talk and become offended. Instead take a big breath and step out of your box and look at the issues he raised in a different way. I found his talk a great example to stop and look and listen at your own programs in your church to see if you are doing it the most effective. I am a Willow member and have been disappointed about some of the programs that have "gone away" in the last year and now after the talk I understand why. I've seen and experienced the reason to do it differently. Gotta Go. Colin is up and I can't WAIT TO LISTEN TO HIM.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Mark said on 10 August, 2007 11:54 AM

Porter's words are poignant because in secular terms he is essentially calling the Church to true Biblical servanthood. He is asking the Church to shift the focus off of those being served and onto the servants. Too often in the church we get so caught up with the spiritual development of our church's servants that we prioritize it above the development of those whom we are serving.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Craig H said on 10 August, 2007 11:56 AM

To consider a strategic methodology for a charitable pursuit is not the first idea that comes to mind. What comes to mind is " I have a heart to do this, or that". Applying strategy and finances and measurable means is quite logical.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Bryan Guthire said on 10 August, 2007 12:05 PM

REGARDING: There are a few people at my satellite site who have gotten upset with some of Dr. Porter's statements. Here is the question that came to my mind as a result: Would Jesus rather us be as effective as possible in the "social services" we do by partnering with other organizations (including non-church) or be less effective but do it in his name? Here are some of my free form thoughts to hopefully start some discussion... Doing anything LESS EFFECTIVELY is never an option as Christ Followers. If God has given resources around us, religious organizations or not, we have a responsibility to our world and to the Kingdom of God to be MOST EFFECTIVE. The idea that we should do less because the local AIDS clinic will get the credit rather than God bugs me. God is honored and pleased when people that need help get help weather or not your or my church is getting the credit for it. God wants to use me and you, we're not perfect and don't always represent Christ as effectively as we should, but He still uses us. And frankly if the church (Ecclesia) were doing a better job of caring for the needs of the world we would need "social service" agencies.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Kevin Roe said on 10 August, 2007 12:18 PM

For clarification (I think we’re on the same page), the point of the question isn’t whether we should do something less effectively intentionally because someone else would get the credit. It’s whether we should be willing to get involved and do our best with those organizations that are doing a good job even if we don’t get the credit rather than reinventing the wheel because we refuse to get involved with organizations who are already being effective but do not do what they do in the name of Jesus Christ.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Jeff said on 10 August, 2007 12:37 PM

I agree with the other comments as well. $ effectiveness is not the only measure of effectiveness but it is one measure that sometimes we disregard. It is important for us to evaluate across a broad spectrum of criteria - onsite impact, opportunity to share the Gospel in person, use of resources, etc. Let's just not focus all on one to the exclusion of all others. Great thoughts all.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Baker said on 10 August, 2007 02:08 PM

What is the program you guys are using to similcast this conference? Some of the graphics look very similar to Mac programs. Was just wondering if you could shed a little light on the subject...thanx 4 ur help.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Kurt Michelson said on 10 August, 2007 02:18 PM

Just a small contribution to the "effectiveness" discussion the Mr. Porter has brought to light regarding what we do with all our resources, from financial to skills to people. We must revist the parable of the talents and consider the "sheep and the goats"... sometimes the most effective route is also the greatest risk which tends to come with the greatest amount of conflict which produces the most growth/fruit in both the service provider and the recipient. I don't see anything wrong with a Phd building a house if the volunteers for a given situation is shallow, however, is it the absolute best and most effective way of generating Kingdom fruit for that given situation? The point here is that we will be and are being held accountable for what we do or don't do with our resources. Bless all of you!!

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Phil Nickel said on 10 August, 2007 03:58 PM

As to Drs painting houses and business people feeding poor. That may not be best use of their skills, but it gives them a first-hand view of the situation. Many wealthy Americans (most people in the Church) have poor ideas and misconceptions of poverty. Mission trips are not for the people visited, but for the sake of the visitors. (Church leaders should plan missions trips with that in mind.) When the business man sits down to help plan future strategy, his (or her) on-site experience will greatly help his planning.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Phil Nickel said on 10 August, 2007 04:01 PM

Question I had from this talk: How do I, as a trained social scientist experienced in needs assessment and program evaluation make my skills available to the greater church. Most people don't even know the science behind survey research and evaluation design. (Its not as simple as most people think. Kind of like an amature trying to build a retaining wall. It might hold, but it might not. A civil engineer is really needed.) Yet, in my experience, there is a great need, but no market for my skills.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Mark said on 10 August, 2007 04:09 PM

Phil, What is your email address?

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Todd said on 10 August, 2007 04:14 PM

Did anyone take notes on Bill’s comments prior to session 5 re: self feeding? If so, would you please post. Thanks

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Paul said on 10 August, 2007 04:45 PM

I took a few notes from Bills talk about Reveal: - Survey found that seekers and new believers were very satisfied, but more mature believers were not - Should teach people to become self-feeders - Developing personal spiritual growth plans - Go to revealnow.com I also had the opportunity to read the book and blog about it earlier this week: http://www.liveintentionally.org/2007/08/08/a-preview-of-reveal-where-are-you/

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Terry Cole said on 10 August, 2007 09:33 PM

I think Dr. Porter has great knowledge of strategy. I enjoyed his presentation immensely. So exciting and this type of cross-pollination and caliber of faculty are among the reasons I come to the conference year after year. However, I feel that the strategists from the business world are still struggling to capture the church's mission. Dr. Porter, like the biz speaker from last year (another great -- Jim Collins) borrows much very effectively from biz and aplies to church. However, in biz we focus on proffits and also the intrinsic value of the biz. In church (which is not just social work, of course) we focus on many other tangibles besides social service delivered, including lives changes, value built in the individuals served *and* in the individuals churched, and (of course) souls saved. Thus, if we are to balance the profit and efficiency equations and fully evaluate efficacy, we have to consider not only the value added to the customer in terms of service delivered, but also the value created in those delivering the service as well as the value of the lives changed. I strongly prefer the partnership model to mission and outreach. Both sides receive and both sides have their evaluation raised and increased. I love to borrow form the biz world (I'm "only" a lay minister and am a reasonably sucessful high tech biz guy myself), but we are still struggling with exactly how that works. The "Good to Great" feedback loop is difficult to close tangibly when looking at the church. The total net work of services delivered by a church are also difficult to capture. I suspect much more work will have to be done in this area. I look forward to seeing it come out of our academies. However, I do agree that we must steward God's resources better and better. The church is only beginning in the path we will walk in terms of emulating the best of the business revolutions of the last 20 or maybe even 40 years. However, our theories do not yet begin to capture the value of the amazing Grace of God.

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Phil Nickel said on 11 August, 2007 06:13 PM

Mark: I've a simple email: phil_nickel@comcast.net

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate

# Kristen Aikman said on 21 August, 2007 02:41 PM

Hello Henry Will IV!  You can find the PowerPoint slides from Michael Porter on the Michael Porter page under "Next Steps" or "Session" or go directly to www.isc.hbs.edu/.../20070810_MEP_WillowCreekAssociation.pdf

Hope that helps!

Email Comment  |  Notify As Inappropriate