We're excited to have some great thoughts on Session 4 from Dan Kimball. Dan is the pastor of Vintage Faith Church in Santa Cruz, CA, and author of the recent book They Like Jesus But Not The Church.  Also, check out his blog, Vintage Faith at www.dankimball.com.

Go to the Summit Next Steps website and click on Session 4 to find photos, videos, relevant links, session Q&A, and many more resources.

Session 4 with John Burke:

I love John Burke. I have known John for a couple of years and when he speaks, he is speaking from a deep level of both experience and passion. I see John as a true missionary to whom God has also given leadership gifts, which is why I pay attention to him when he speaks or writes. I know his heart really bleeds for those outside the church, and the church he planted in Austin is a testimony of that. I didn't know what John was going to be speaking about when I watched his session, and sure enough - it was his heart and passion once again coming out strong.

Two things resonated with my heart during John's talk. First, he clearly mentioned how there is a growing disconnect and negative impression from those outside the church about Christians that isn't too good. This is pretty real and obvious. Just today, looking at my laptop's home page, which is CNN news, there is an article about a pastor who swindled an elderly man out of a lot of money. There is another story of a murder with a pastor involved. And there is another story of a lawsuit happening against a pastor's wife. All three stories are online making major headlines in a single day! So, it shouldn't be surprising that John is stating that many people who are outside of the church world look at us and wonder why the heck they would want to become a Christian - if these are the types of things they often hear about. Hearing John state what he did shows me he is very aware of the stereotypes we are facing in our culture today.

Second, what resonated with me is that despite these stereotypes, John didn't paint a doom-and-gloom outlook on things. He gave great hope and optimism. And he said that "it isn't that difficult" to see the barriers removed from people outside the church to what they think of Christians and for them to experience the grace of Jesus. But he said something very important - he said that we will have to "get our hands dirty". It means we need to be out with the people. To listen to people and hear their questions and their thinking and to show them that Christians are not all like they may think. From my experience, Christians and church leaders either totally know what John is talking about and are engaging people and culture - or they have subtly retreated from culture and are remaining in what I see as the "Christian bubble." Often, we can see culture as an enemy and want to hide from it or recreate Christian imitations of it in a safe, inward-focused church environment.

What I personally have found to be motivating in taking what John said to heart is remembering that Jesus loves people outside the church. He has compassion for those who are like sheep without a shepherd, or following false shepherds. Jesus wept for even those who were rejecting Him as he walked on the Mount of Olives and looked at Jerusalem. Remembering Jesus' heart for those who sadly do not know Him as their shepherd or Savior is critical. As church leaders desiring to model ourselves after Jesus, we see that what John was sharing about those outside the church is something Jesus cares greatly about. It is easy to sometimes forget all of this in the midst of all the busyness of church activity and our own lives.

"Getting our hands dirty" may mean intentionally positioning and placing ourselves in people outside the church's lives. As John said, "simple" it really is. Getting your hair cut by non-Christians instead of someone in your church. Doing your studying for sermons in a coffeehouse so you get to know the baristas. All types of things are available to us if we are intentional about what is right before us every day.

I would also take John's questions to heart in how he heard people asking, "What about homosexuality?" and "What about world religions?" We desperately need to be prepared to lovingly answer these questions - not compromising our theology or the gospel - and answering in a way that is intelligent, scriptural, grace-filled. What is interesting is that unless we are friends with people, they won't ask us questions. So who is in our life that is asking these questions?

I could seriously go on and on, as I so respect and agree with John and what he shared. And as he wrapped up his message and introduced Efrem, my heart began racing again. I was recently at Efrem's church and saw the same heart and passion John has but fleshed out in a different context. That is what this is all about! May we follow the examples of John and Efrem in this - people outside the church are worth it, as they are of great worth to Jesus.